Christmas market off after move is rejected (From thisisoxfordshire)
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Christmas market off after move is rejected
10:30am Saturday 29th September 2012 in News
By Emma Harrison, Reporter covering Rose Hill, Littlemore and Iffley. Contact me on 01865 425430
Oxford's Christmas market
OXFORD’S Christmas market has been cancelled after city centre businesses said it would harm their trade.
Organisers hoped to relocate the festive attraction from Oxford Castle , where it has been held for the last three years, to Broad Street because of dwindling profits and a low footfall.
But permission to move was refused by Oxford City Council after it found businesses did not support the idea.
Organiser Nicole Rahimi, from Iffley, said the decision was unexpected.
She said: “We just couldn’t believe it. We are all a bit gobsmacked about the decision.
“We were really quite positive that we would get it.”
Mrs Rahimi, who said she had 200 traders interested in having a stall at the market if it changed location, plans to make another application to hold the market in Broad Street in 2013.
She said: “I don’t want to give up. I would like to make another application, I don’t want this to end. I have put too much into it and I still feel Oxford is the right city.
“Traders know Oxford is a great city. They were very keen to come back to a prominent location.”
Previous markets, featuring German-style wooden stalls, attracted thousands of visitors.
The first market in 2009 had 30 stallholders and last year this grew to 48.
Mrs Rahimi added: “It is a shame for Oxford.”
The city council refused the application on Friday last week and rejected an appeal from organisers on Thursday saying there were “no strong grounds” to support a move and claiming there was a lack of support from Broad Street businesses and traders.
Simon Kosky, owner of Flaggs in Broad Street, said: “Over the years when there have been events in Broad Street, it disturbs our trade in a non-beneficial way.
“The Christmas market wouldn’t benefit us.”
But Frank Smith, store operations manager for Boswells in Broad Street, said: “I am disappointed.
“I would have been supportive of the market because it would have brought more footfall to this end of Cornmarket Street.”
Graham Jones, from traders’ group ROX, said: “Markets have been held there in the past and the shops there felt that people were going to the market but ignoring the shops.
“It is very sad but if people can get together and work out some of the problems, hopefully Nicole will come back with a renewed attempt early next year.”
He added: “If it is going to increase the footfall and not compete with the shops, then it is win-win.”
In a statement the city council said: “We regret that the market is unable to take place this year.
“However, there were no strong grounds to support a move away from the Oxford Castle site.
“As with any event application, we have to consult with various stakeholders.
“This consultation took place with the Broad Street stakeholders and there was no overwhelming support from them for the market to move to Broad Street.”
Comments(25)
Geoff Roberts
says...
11:37am Sat 29 Sep 12
Oxford City Council are not being transparent and accountable here I don't think.
They claim "lack of support" from businesses and traders on Broad Street but only 1 of them has been quoted.
The other business quoted is actually for the plans!
What does "lack of support" mean?
In it's most basic definition I suggest it mean lack of support, that doesn't mean "against"!
So is it really lack of support or is it that the businesses are pro-actively against the plans? The 2 things are different.
This whole thing is very misleading, particularly the quote from Graham Jones.
Hang on, isn't Graham Jones also on the council?!
I'm seeing people presenting a risk and I'm seeing people saying that there isn't a strong enough case.
Dealing with the risk:
The risk is that the market brings in more people to shop in Oxford but those people or some of those people are distracted from looking in the shops because they are too busy looking at the stalls.
So that a risk to the existing businesses in the form of money. I don't think it's a risk to quality or time. Just money.
First of all, if the market brings in extra shoppers and those shoppers don't go to the shops, only the stalls. Then the shops haven't actually lost anything because without the market those extra shoppers would not have been there.
I think this risk is very unlikely to become an issue, it's based on an unsafe assumption.
I think the more likely scenario is that the market would bring in extra shoppers and a percentage of those shoppers will also visit the shops as well as the stalls. So long as people can't get goods from the stalls cheaper than they can get from the shops. If I had a business in broad street I think I'd be inclined to support the market and also open my own stall to cover both bases. Get my branding and marketing in amongst the market and direct people to my shop.
Thinking about shoppers' behaviour I also suggest that people tend to go into Oxford to visit certain shops anyway. Especially Broad Street. So often people will head into town to go to Boswells for example. On that basis there's unlikely to be a risk so long as people can't get what they were going to buy from Boswells, at the market, or so long as Boswells has a market stall.
xjohnx
says...
11:38am Sat 29 Sep 12
Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.
Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.
Geoff Roberts
says...
11:40am Sat 29 Sep 12
Dilligaf2010
says...
12:09pm Sat 29 Sep 12
xjohnx wrote:The traders are invited to come from Europe, and other countries, because Christmas means more to them than sitting in front of the TV, whilst getting drunk and eating excessively.
These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.
Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.
Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.
And as for your comment about the traders not being here for the long haul, as far as I'm aware there's only one Muppet in the UK (yes I've met him, he's actually worse than a Muppet, but I can't use the words I'd prefer to), who celebrates Christmas every day of the year, and he lives in Melksham, Wilts., so it would be fairly pointless for them to be here all year.
Andrew:Oxford
says...
12:28pm Sat 29 Sep 12
Take Templars Square for example. The stalls could operate outdoors from just outside Wetherspoons right along to the Nelson - with premium stalls indoors.
Likewise, if work hasn't commenced on the Block & Quayle site, a massive *indoor* Christmas market could be held - with all the food stalls on the parking spaces between the old entrance and Halfords.
There are around 2000 parking spaces between Templars Square & Templars Retail Park.
Behind Tesco, at Ambassador Way, there is a disused 500 space car park - perfect for a Christmas Market, probably leaving 400 spaces free for customers.
Behind Tesco, on the Cowley Road, there is an abandoned builders yard - just off a major bus route, plenty of parking nearby too.
Then there are the "town greens" - what could better the festive spirit than a massive Christmas Market held on a Town Green? Warneford Meadow would be perfect!
The only thing that Broad Street truly offers is the prospect of a balance to offset the lack of business acumen.
mytaxes
says...
2:21pm Sat 29 Sep 12
West Oxon Webwatcher
says...
3:51pm Sat 29 Sep 12
West Oxon Webwatcher
says...
3:51pm Sat 29 Sep 12
xjohnx
says...
4:02pm Sat 29 Sep 12
Dilligaf2010 wrote:What planet please!
xjohnx wrote:The traders are invited to come from Europe, and other countries, because Christmas means more to them than sitting in front of the TV, whilst getting drunk and eating excessively.
These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.
Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.
Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.
And as for your comment about the traders not being here for the long haul, as far as I'm aware there's only one Muppet in the UK (yes I've met him, he's actually worse than a Muppet, but I can't use the words I'd prefer to), who celebrates Christmas every day of the year, and he lives in Melksham, Wilts., so it would be fairly pointless for them to be here all year.
Myron Blatz
says...
5:42pm Sat 29 Sep 12
Richie24
says...
7:47pm Sat 29 Sep 12
carli
says...
10:24am Sun 30 Sep 12
violetta.b
says...
1:18pm Sun 30 Sep 12
The main problem with the original location in the castle was that the council didn't advertise the market and hence the "low footfall". Oxford council doesn't seem to like advertising...
We - the public - should have a say in whether we want a Christmas market in our town - not the greedy, profit-motivated shopkeepers.
The shops along Broad Street are mainly the University Souvenir shops and how many locals buy Christmas presents for their friends and family there anyway?
The other shops along the street - e.g. the art shop - are mainly quite specialised and unique in Oxford and so people generally know when they need to go to them and search them out specifically. I really don't think a Christmas market would make that much of a difference to them.
The Christmas market would only be there for 2 to 3 weeks anyway - it wouldn't be a permanent fixture.
Shame on the shops on Broad Street - due to this selfish and inconsiderate attitude, I will be boycotting them from now on - and not just for Christmas. 'll go to Boswells if for any reason I actually do find myself needing an Oxford souvenir for anyone!
Andrew:Oxford
says...
6:09pm Sun 30 Sep 12
violetta.b wrote:It's not for any local authority to advertise a privately organised and operated market which is held within private grounds.
This is so sad - and selfish. I - and many other people - loved the Christmas market.
The main problem with the original location in the castle was that the council didn't advertise the market and hence the "low footfall". Oxford council doesn't seem to like advertising...
We - the public - should have a say in whether we want a Christmas market in our town - not the greedy, profit-motivated shopkeepers.
The shops along Broad Street are mainly the University Souvenir shops and how many locals buy Christmas presents for their friends and family there anyway?
The other shops along the street - e.g. the art shop - are mainly quite specialised and unique in Oxford and so people generally know when they need to go to them and search them out specifically. I really don't think a Christmas market would make that much of a difference to them.
The Christmas market would only be there for 2 to 3 weeks anyway - it wouldn't be a permanent fixture.
Shame on the shops on Broad Street - due to this selfish and inconsiderate attitude, I will be boycotting them from now on - and not just for Christmas. 'll go to Boswells if for any reason I actually do find myself needing an Oxford souvenir for anyone!
If advertising is to be done, then the organiser and the participants should be spending - it's they, after all, who'll be profiting.
H.J.Harris
says...
6:48pm Sun 30 Sep 12
Bon Rurgundy
says...
6:58pm Sun 30 Sep 12
Dilligaf2010
says...
7:42pm Sun 30 Sep 12
xjohnx wrote:Well the one I'm residing on is called Earth, what's yours called?
Dilligaf2010 wrote:What planet please!
xjohnx wrote:The traders are invited to come from Europe, and other countries, because Christmas means more to them than sitting in front of the TV, whilst getting drunk and eating excessively.
These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.
Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.
Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.
And as for your comment about the traders not being here for the long haul, as far as I'm aware there's only one Muppet in the UK (yes I've met him, he's actually worse than a Muppet, but I can't use the words I'd prefer to), who celebrates Christmas every day of the year, and he lives in Melksham, Wilts., so it would be fairly pointless for them to be here all year.
PJ_KENT
says...
8:35pm Sun 30 Sep 12
In previous years the Christmas Market has been about the only thing to give Oxford a real Christmas feel. It has brought into town people like me who would usually go elsewhere to shop, to find unusual and unique gifts at the market and then go around other shops.
I hope the decision is reversed, and the Market can move to this new location. If not, then I for one will be shopping elsewhere.
Myron Blatz
says...
10:53pm Sun 30 Sep 12
Arc/Weld
says...
12:57pm Mon 1 Oct 12
I've really fallen out with Oxford over the last few years. It's so sad because it could be and should be such a wonderful city to visit. True, there are some nice things to visit but it just doesn't really live up to itself.
Anyway, I do agree that there are plenty of alternate sights within the city (not everything needs to be held in the centre) that would benefit greatly from this.
For those of you that are able to spend a little on a weekend away, I would recommend going to Germany itself for the Christmas markets. They are spectacular
eatmygoal
says...
4:56pm Mon 1 Oct 12
Note to self. Boycott Flaggs.
sparky123456
says...
5:37pm Mon 1 Oct 12
I thought the one at the castle was much better. More like a traditional Bavarian market with food and drink, gifts and crafts. It might not be for everyone but is everything always for everyone?!
Why can't this market join forces with the council and be located near to the light switch on? get an outdoor ice rink like they have in edinburgh too. tens of thousands flock to their market then shop at the brick and mortar stores on Princes st afterwards and the council grants late opening hours. I can't see how some europeans selling Bratwurst and cuckoo clocks can possibly affect trade at half the trashy 'gift' shops along Broad Street anyway?!!
If anything it would highlight to people what shops are down there if they hadn't shopped there before.
Really disappointed with this decision as there's a lack of public entertainment around that time of year as it is.
Andrew:Oxford
says...
10:57pm Mon 1 Oct 12
sparky123456 wrote:People haven't "flocked" to Princes Street in years! The tramworks put paid to that.
im not sure but i didn't think the Oxford Castle market was funded (at least not in the majority) by the council. Last year i found it hard to find as everything pointed you to the switching on of the lights on St Giles and the councils rather poor attempt at their own market (some really awful stalls selling mulled wine at £6 a glass and a few knitted scarves!)
I thought the one at the castle was much better. More like a traditional Bavarian market with food and drink, gifts and crafts. It might not be for everyone but is everything always for everyone?!
Why can't this market join forces with the council and be located near to the light switch on? get an outdoor ice rink like they have in edinburgh too. tens of thousands flock to their market then shop at the brick and mortar stores on Princes st afterwards and the council grants late opening hours. I can't see how some europeans selling Bratwurst and cuckoo clocks can possibly affect trade at half the trashy 'gift' shops along Broad Street anyway?!!
If anything it would highlight to people what shops are down there if they hadn't shopped there before.
Really disappointed with this decision as there's a lack of public entertainment around that time of year as it is.
As to Princes Street opening hours. There is no legislation in Scotland for retail opening hours - large supermarkets open 24 hours on a Sunday, and high street shops tend to open 10-6 on a Sunday. The standard opening hours for large shops on Princes Street is 8-7 on a weekday
AngrySapper
says...
6:44am Tue 2 Oct 12
Geoff Roberts says...
11:17am Sat 29 Sep 12
It's all about you is it? Know that for sure do you? I don't think so.
Oxford has a reputation for being very poor for shopping. People are increasingly going elsewhere. Surely it would be more constructive if all of these businesses worked together. So, have the market in Broad Street and maybe have your own stall too if you're in Broad Street. Or maybe there should be some rules over competition? I do not see a valid argument against this market here, all I see is a risk presented by our council on behalf of a largely unknown group of traders.
I would think the opposite is true, that a Christmas market would attract more people and therefore more opportunity for these businesses!