Shotgun brandished at dog walkers (From thisisoxfordshire)
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Shotgun brandished at dog walkers
10:00am Friday 20th January 2012 in News
A FARMER’S brandishing of a shotgun in front of two dog walkers was no different to “using a shovel for gardening”, his barrister claimed.
Timothy Hook was sentenced at Oxford Crown Court for a common assault on dog-walker Gary Somerville.
Nigel Fryer, defending, said his client had not intended to scare Mr Somerville and his partner Mr Cripps when he produced the weapon.
He said: “The reality here is that whilst a shotgun was involved on a limited basis, to those who are not involved in the farming community and to someone who has no knowledge of guns the production of such a weapon can seem threatening and frightening, but of course for Mr Hook, being a farmer, it’s a tool of his trade — no more, no less.
“It’s the same as getting a shovel out.”
Mr Somerville and Mr Cripps were walking their two West Highland terriers and one red setter on land owned by the GJ Hook and Son dairy farm in Cote, near Bampton, on May 18.
The court was told the route was often used by the pair, who mistakenly thought it was a public right of way.
Prosecutor Jonathan Stone said 30-year-old Hook pulled over in a Land Rover and shouted: “What the **** are you doing on my land?”
Mr Stone said Mr Somerville apologised and told the farmer they would leave, but Hook said: “If I catch you on my land again I will take you and your dogs out” before removing a shotgun in its case from the vehicle.
Hook, whose barrister described the incident as a “clash of cultures”, denied using a firearm with intent to cause fear but admitted a lesser charge of common assault. He was given a 12-month conditional discharge with £475 costs.
Comments(55)
Darkforbid
says...
11:21am Fri 20 Jan 12
But obviously not under "UK rich landowner" law
Dilligaf2010
says...
11:29am Fri 20 Jan 12
........what planet is this Barrister from? Cloud Cuckoo-Land?
I must've missed something, last time I bought a shovel I didn't have to produce a license, anybody else had to?
Darkforbid
says...
12:03pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Its part of the garden tools licensing act (1758)
Your_Kidding
says...
12:10pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Dilligaf2010
says...
12:25pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Your_Kidding wrote:Doubt it, but he'll probably get a mention in the Queen's Birthday Honours list.
So will he now loose his shotgun licence for having a conviction for assault ?
Straight Six
says...
1:32pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Straight Six
says...
1:33pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Straight Six
says...
1:34pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Dilligaf2010
says...
1:37pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Straight Six wrote:Not like you then :P
Idiots. Thank goodness the Judge used his brain.
Your_Kidding
says...
1:46pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Straight Six wrote:Issues so big you felt the need to tear yourself away from them to add your three comments.
Jeesh will you lot get a life....Bigger issues out there right now me thinks. And removing a sheathed gun from a vehicle constitutes intent to use use it? Idiot. Thank goodness the Judge used his brain.
King Joke
says...
2:05pm Fri 20 Jan 12
If someone walked across my front garden and I went back to the kitched to fetch a knife to wave at them, I'd quite rightly have the book thrown at me. Farmers should be no different.
Dilligaf2010
says...
3:13pm Fri 20 Jan 12
King Joke wrote:Ah, but according to the Barrister, you'd be better off keeping a shovel in your cutlery drawer :P
A sheathed gun is still a gun, ie a thing designed to kill people with. Waving one around at people who have annoyed you is not the way people in a civilised society carry on.
If someone walked across my front garden and I went back to the kitched to fetch a knife to wave at them, I'd quite rightly have the book thrown at me. Farmers should be no different.
Darkforbid
says...
3:44pm Fri 20 Jan 12
If the dog walkers in this story had hit him with something heavy, bet they'd be looking at jail time...
Lord Palmerstone
says...
4:21pm Fri 20 Jan 12
King Joke
says...
4:55pm Fri 20 Jan 12
iklhik
says...
7:09pm Fri 20 Jan 12
King Joke wrote:Only this is a shotgun, not a handgun. Hardly the tool of choice for criminals, and no more designed to kill people than your kitchen knives or your car - all are capable, but designed for other purposes.
A sheathed gun is still a gun, ie a thing designed to kill people with. Waving one around at people who have annoyed you is not the way people in a civilised society carry on.
If someone walked across my front garden and I went back to the kitched to fetch a knife to wave at them, I'd quite rightly have the book thrown at me. Farmers should be no different.
Darkforbid
says...
7:34pm Fri 20 Jan 12
for criminals┄
?? In the UK it is!!
You may have to shorten it first, hence "sawnoff" the most common weapon used in armed robberies, in the country
King Joke
says...
9:07pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Instilling the fear of imminent demise into someone who has wronged you is the action of a thuggish hooligan, and the law should deal with this chap accordingly.
The Big Issue
says...
10:23pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Did he say oooh arrrgh aswell?
Darkforbid
says...
11:38pm Fri 20 Jan 12
Perhaps he thought it was an audition for Vis the movie...
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
3:30am Sat 21 Jan 12
Your_Kidding wrote:One would assume that you would want his shotgun licence to be tightened, not as you state to be more LOOSE, or did you want him to LOSE his licence ?
So will he now loose his shotgun licence for having a conviction for assault ?
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
3:37am Sat 21 Jan 12
King Joke wrote:TBH, these plebs that seem to think that they can just use other peoples land for their own pleasures, are exactly the same ones that come running out of their houses if you even park your car 1 inch over their driveway effing and blinding about it being their property. They can't have it both ways, and the farmer was just warning them in a forceful way so that they would not trespass again. Typical Townies not understanding the ways of the country. But I was surprised at the judge giving such a harsh sentence, a conditional discharge would have been appropriate in this case.
Some sense from one of our Lords, but what of McVey? Why is he still keeping his counsel?
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
3:39am Sat 21 Jan 12
King Joke wrote:Had trouble getting a cab home mate, bl00dy students are back and took them all. Gave me an excuse for a couple of extra nitecaps.
Some sense from one of our Lords, but what of McVey? Why is he still keeping his counsel?
Darkforbid
says...
4:49am Sat 21 Jan 12
not understanding the ways of the
country.┄
┄Mr
Somerville and his partner Mr
Cripps┄
Peter by the sound of it Cripps&Somerville had been walking their dogs along the same track for some time (possibly local), so I don't think village/town was the issue.
The “clash of cultures” must mean something else any ideas?
Lord Palmerstone
says...
7:00am Sat 21 Jan 12
xjohnx
says...
2:48pm Sat 21 Jan 12
A shotgun is a country tool. In town, would they have feigned fear of him running them over instead?
King Joke
says...
1:09pm Sun 22 Jan 12
xjohnx wrote:Threatening to run someone over is no better and no worse than waving a gun at them. THe threat of physical violence should be abhorrent to most of us in a civilised society, and the law should be dealing with this in the strongest terms.
Sounds to me like those two 'dog walkers' set up the situation. How long had they been winding up the farmer? A shotgun is a country tool. In town, would they have feigned fear of him running them over instead?
If a thug waved a legally-owned kitchen knife at someone in Hackney over a percieved slight, he would be looking a couple of years inside. The least this feller should have got is loss of a firearm licence for a number of years. THis is undue leniency.
Kropotkin
says...
2:18pm Sun 22 Jan 12
One law for ...
Kropotkin
says...
2:18pm Sun 22 Jan 12
One law for ...
Kropotkin
says...
2:18pm Sun 22 Jan 12
One law for ...
Darkforbid
says...
4:37pm Sun 22 Jan 12
found with a kitchen knife let alone producing it. Automatic jail.
One law for...┄
?? You can carry a knife in the UK, if you have a good reason...
Kitchen knife and Nightclub or pub, is not going to work
But a Leatherman is a toolkit so is legal...
I generally carry a woodaxe around but have a reason so its legal
BigAlBiker
says...
8:54am Mon 23 Jan 12
King Joke
says...
9:25am Mon 23 Jan 12
## Nonny Mouse ##
says...
10:53am Mon 23 Jan 12
However, far too many people do not respect our rights of way and think they can 'ramble freely'. You can't. What they were doing was trespassing. End of. Also, were these dogs on leashes? Were they fowling on the land? The land belongs to a dairy farm, it is of grave importance that the land is kept free of infection etc. Also, had these dogs been of the lead and started chasing cattle around causing injury, the farmer would have little discourse.
It is these pressures that provoked such a bad reaction from the farmer, but i don't condone them for one instant.
King Joke
says...
10:59am Mon 23 Jan 12
When my dog was younger and could do the mileage I used to take off for whole days with just an OS map. I always stuck to the paths marked in green. I think it should be made clearer the dangers that dogs pose to all livestock, not just sheep.
xjohnx
says...
3:09pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Apart from the two dog walkers themselves, who saw him threaten them?
I myself have been threatened by so called dogwalkers. Unfortunately they had mistaken me for a landowner.
Lord Palmerstone
says...
6:12pm Mon 23 Jan 12
xjohnx wrote:Apart from the two dog walkers themselves, who saw him threaten them?
I say again, I think this may well have been a set up by the walkers.
Apart from the two dog walkers themselves, who saw him threaten them?
I myself have been threatened by so called dogwalkers. Unfortunately they had mistaken me for a landowner.
He did. That's why he pleaded to the lesser charge, with massive relief.
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
9:18pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Lord Palmerstone wrote:Maybe he should have just shot them, no witnesses then. But seriously I don't know why you lot are so wound up, all he did was tell them forcibly to get off of his land with their dirty animals, and in a manner that they would take seriously and not come back. He used reasonable force, in fact not any force at all, but under the supposed new law he did nothing wrong in protecting his property. So actually nothing has changed, and you wake up to find some scroat in your bedroom robbing you, then you must politely ask him to leave because if you frighten him by pulling out a weapon then you are still going to be nicked.
xjohnx wrote:Apart from the two dog walkers themselves, who saw him threaten them?
I say again, I think this may well have been a set up by the walkers.
Apart from the two dog walkers themselves, who saw him threaten them?
I myself have been threatened by so called dogwalkers. Unfortunately they had mistaken me for a landowner.
He did. That's why he pleaded to the lesser charge, with massive relief.
King Joke
says...
9:46pm Mon 23 Jan 12
millybeau
says...
12:03am Tue 24 Jan 12
Lord Palmerstone
says...
7:33am Tue 24 Jan 12
oxfordbuddy
says...
10:41am Tue 24 Jan 12
punisher22
says...
11:15pm Tue 24 Jan 12
the wizard
says...
7:46am Wed 25 Jan 12
I'll also bet that the dog walkers, nor any of their buddies go that way again. Too many people with dogs roaming the fields spreading all sorts of infections to cattle and crops, and I'll bet the likes of those two walk their dogs across the fields when the whole farming community is fighting the likes of Foot and Mouth, mindless idiots.
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
7:38pm Wed 25 Jan 12
oxfordbuddy wrote:Look more carefully next time you invade some body else's property, do not assume that it is your right. Your imaginary farmer was at least polite enough to warn you about the shooting on HIS LAND, instead he could have let you carry on and be shot in mistake for a deer, you should be thankful.
Waving a shotgun at someone is called 'just the ways of the country'. Unbelievable. I was once threatened like this too, out with my family, we strayed unintentionally off the footpath. Up comes Farmer Giles in his quadbike thingy with 4 rampant dogs in the back waving his gun. We explained and apologised and as he directed us back to the footpath, he said 'I wouldn't want to be walking around here with kiddies, we do a lot of deer shooting'. Talk about harrassment! And farmers so often block footpaths, churn them up, remove footpath signs so as to make walking in the countryside impossible. They are so often the nastiest people around and then they expect us to go to farmers markets and buy their produce and sympathise with them over their 'battle with the supermarkets'. At least the manager of Tescos can be expected to behave in a civil manner!
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
7:41pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Lord Palmerstone wrote:Sorry NO M'LUD. It is his property and livlihood. And having regular interlopers destroying his land with their dogs sh!t etc is not on. The police do not care, so you have to make it clear that those people are not allowed to use your land as a dogs toilet.
Perhaps we should just repeal the OAPA 1861 and then he could set spring guns to protect the bank's land. The point remains, he's not well in the head to behave like this.
LORD PETE MCVEY OX2 6EG
says...
7:43pm Wed 25 Jan 12
millybeau wrote:Exactly.
they didn't "stray" into somebody's field.. it was a daily routine ! If i took my dog into next doors' vegetable patch to go to the toilet I would expect to be told to *****get off my land. Likewise, if somebody regularly brought their dog into my garden to have a c**p I would probably get a little fed up with it and if the response was one of arrogance then it would probably try my patience. No difference to the waste of money spent on the court case !!
King Joke
says...
8:39pm Wed 25 Jan 12
I work for an energy company where 'downsizing' has been happening during the current climate. As such my livelihood is threatened by repated customer service calls wiping out margin, non-payment of debt, breach of contract and so on. Do I go round and wave guns at people who do this? No.
Do bookshop owners go up the Amazon warehouse waving machetes? No.
Do bus inspectors stand at the roadside pointing guns at motorists in bus lanes? No.
Farmers shouldn't be any different.
Lord Palmerstone
says...
10:16pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Dilligaf2010
says...
2:02am Thu 26 Jan 12
Can't be a proper farmer anyway, he should've shouted "Get orff my laand!" :)
## Nonny Mouse ##
says...
9:07am Thu 26 Jan 12
Harrassment? What is harrassing with that? That along with your other mindless bigoted views show you have little or no understanding of what goes on in the countryside. It is industrial land. Pests such as deer are controlled with lethal force on a daily basis. This is strictly controlled and done away from public rights of way etc so that YOU and your ilk DON'T get shot! If you are trespassing and accidentally take a bullet, the land owner is still culpable.
'No wonder there are incidents with firearms where many people are killed when the police/courts let a mad **** farmer keep his licence'
I suppose you are tarring him with the Raoul Moat brush? He was 1 licenced gun-owner that went crackers. How about all the un-licenced firearms in the country that are in the hands of 'children' in our inner cities. I am substantially more worried about that, personally.
Dilligaf2010
says...
11:26am Thu 26 Jan 12
## Nonny Mouse ## wrote:Actually, I think you'll find the Countryside is Agricultural Land, if you were actually as knowledgeable as you claim, you'd know that.
'he said 'I wouldn't want to be walking around here with kiddies, we do a lot of deer shooting'. Talk about harrassment!'
Harrassment? What is harrassing with that? That along with your other mindless bigoted views show you have little or no understanding of what goes on in the countryside. It is industrial land. Pests such as deer are controlled with lethal force on a daily basis. This is strictly controlled and done away from public rights of way etc so that YOU and your ilk DON'T get shot! If you are trespassing and accidentally take a bullet, the land owner is still culpable.
'No wonder there are incidents with firearms where many people are killed when the police/courts let a mad **** farmer keep his licence'
I suppose you are tarring him with the Raoul Moat brush? He was 1 licenced gun-owner that went crackers. How about all the un-licenced firearms in the country that are in the hands of 'children' in our inner cities. I am substantially more worried about that, personally.
King Joke
says...
11:47am Thu 26 Jan 12
## Nonny Mouse ##
says...
1:15pm Thu 26 Jan 12
What i am getting peeved about is ignoramuses like 'oxfordbuddy' spouting stuff like 'They (farmers) are so often the nastiest people around'. I'm sure others would get annoyed if you exchanged the word Farmer for 'civil servant/policeman/bi
nman'.
And as for suggesting that Farmer's are in someway responsible for gun related fatality statistics is just laughable.
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the wizard says...
11:19am Fri 20 Jan 12
Farmers, although not my favourite species, have enough worries over spread of disease across their land and contamination of crops and the like.
Dog mess is a constant cause of annoyance throughout society. These two walkers should have took the lesson on board, but no, they go and report it as if they were in the right to be there. I hope the farmer erects plenty of signs and further deterrents to keep them out in the future, after all, he was only protecting what is rightfully his to start with. Had they caught an infection no doubt they would be suing him, when they had no right to be there in the first place, and Cameron says you can defend what is yours, hmmmmmm.