Battle lines drawn as £100m West Way plans finally revealed

The Rev Clare Sykes, front, with, rear from left, John Gill, Mary Gill, Gordon Stokes, Ag MacKeith, Grant Nightingale and the Rev Graham Sykes with some West Way plans; below, an artist’s impression

The Rev Clare Sykes, front, with, rear from left, John Gill, Mary Gill, Gordon Stokes, Ag MacKeith, Grant Nightingale and the Rev Graham Sykes with some West Way plans; below, an artist’s impression

First published in News thisisoxfordshire: Photograph of the Author by , Council Reporter, also covering Oxford city centre. Call me on 01865 425429

BUSINESSES facing demolition could be housed in shipping containers for up to two years if the £100m redevelopment of Botley’s West Way goes ahead.

People can now have their say on controversial £100m plans to redevelop the site after the details of the scheme were finally published.

Publication of the documents has been delayed for more than a month after the planning application was submitted by developers Doric.

Campaigners said changes made were merely cosmetic – with most already revealed.

And they said they were now preparing to launch a major push in their fight against the scheme.

Chris Church, of the West Way Community Concern group, said a large public meeting would now be arranged, in the wake of organised protests over the scheme.

“Opposition to these plans remains just as strong,” he said.

“The much-hyped changes to the first plans are entirely cosmetic.

“We value our community and its surroundings.

“We want a development that maintains and builds local quality.
“What is being forced on us is a poorly designed Nightmare on Elms Parade.”
The major new detail that emerged yesterday was the proposal over the firms using shipping containers – a scheme similar to one used in Shoreditch in East London – with the other main changes already having been revealed.
Doric Properties signed an agreement with the Vale of the White Horse District Council to buy the land at the beginning of last year.
Its proposals are for a development including a large superstore, a piazza, multi-screen cinema, underground car park and 525 student rooms.
There would also be a replacement library, larger community facilities and a 100-bedroom hotel.
During construction, which is expected to last up to two years, it said good-quality temporary accommodation would  be provided for some businesses which Doric said could come in the form of shipping containers placed on the car park behind St Peter and St Paul Church.
But Gary Walker, of Botley Barbers in Elms Parade, which would be demolished as part of the scheme, said this would only work for a limited number of businesses.  He said: “I think the development is like squashing a walnut with a steamroller really. It is a bit over the top.”
Ag MacKeith, of Old Botley, said: “My main concern about the development is that it has silently upgraded our shopping centre from being a local centre to a
district centre but we are just a small suburb of Oxford – we don’t want to compete with Witney and Abingdon. I think Doric has greatly misjudged the client base for this development.”
Boxpark in Shoreditch is a temporary mall made of stripped and refitted shipping containers which opened in 2011.
Joint owner of Doric Properties, Simon Hillcox, said: “We’re incredibly proud of our plans and delighted that the community will now be able to see them in detail on the council’s website.
“Our conversations have already led to some very positive improvements. For example, the West Way frontage is up to four storeys lower and has been completely redesigned to look and feel more like a traditional high street.
“Our £100m investment includes a brand new community hall, the designs of which have been developed with North Hinksey Parish Council, a new Baptist Church, a library twice the size of the existing library in a prominent location – all amongst a range of other benefits, including up to 1,000 jobs.”
Matthew Barber, leader of the district council, has said it took a long time to process the documents because of the size of the application.
A spokesman for the district council said: “The delay in validating the application was due to essential clarification on a number of issues. These have now been resolved, and the plans are now live on our website. Consultation will start today for just over seven weeks.
“The closing date for comments will be March 27, 2014. The delay in validating the application has had no impact on the length of time available for the local community to comment of the application.
“In fact, we have extended the consultation period to ensure that anyone who reads the details in the press from February 13 will have a full six weeks from that date.”
The council has issued a target decision date of May 1.
Comments can now be sent to Vale of White Horse District Council. Visit whitehorsedc.gov.uk

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9:08am Tue 4 Feb 14

BigAlBiker says...

What's the problem? the regeneration of what is an old sad dreary area is to be welcomed, new business, new jobs the lot, and the more facilities for the locals must be applauded.
What's the problem? the regeneration of what is an old sad dreary area is to be welcomed, new business, new jobs the lot, and the more facilities for the locals must be applauded. BigAlBiker
  • Score: 0

9:51am Tue 4 Feb 14

mytaxes says...

The academics employed by the colleges are not interested in the new jobs and they seem to be making the loudest noise, perhaps some of the older residents are frightened of change. I am surprised that anything gets built in Oxford far too many NIMBYs.
The academics employed by the colleges are not interested in the new jobs and they seem to be making the loudest noise, perhaps some of the older residents are frightened of change. I am surprised that anything gets built in Oxford far too many NIMBYs. mytaxes
  • Score: -8

10:03am Tue 4 Feb 14

Twirly says...

The problem is Botley is not a destination, it is small suburb of Oxford and this development is completely over the top for the area. The road network simply cannot handle the additional traffic that this development will generate. Only the other week when there were temporary traffic lights at Osney Mead, this caused a backlog of traffic right along the Eynsham Road and right up Cumnor Hill - this will just become the norm and will make life intolerable for the residents. The "problem" also involves moving elderly residents out of their homes at Field House and scattering them around Oxfordshire - is that a problem? Yes, because this is not the way to treat our old folk - it is stressful enough moving at any time of life, but when you are older, this kind of enforced disruption is unacceptable. The "problem" also involves losing our small independent traders and replacing them with chain shops, supermarkets and restaurants. There will two years of shops located in shipping containers with the temporary loss of car parking spaces - great for business -not! The locals are quite happy with the facilities that already exist and have no desire for a cinema -we already have enough of these within easy reach (the cinema will only become a white elephant - remember the Imax at Bournemouth - demolished due to lack of use and replaced with community space!). This scheme must be scaled down and the Vale of the White Horse District Council and Doric must listen and respect the views of the people who actually live in Botley.
The problem is Botley is not a destination, it is small suburb of Oxford and this development is completely over the top for the area. The road network simply cannot handle the additional traffic that this development will generate. Only the other week when there were temporary traffic lights at Osney Mead, this caused a backlog of traffic right along the Eynsham Road and right up Cumnor Hill - this will just become the norm and will make life intolerable for the residents. The "problem" also involves moving elderly residents out of their homes at Field House and scattering them around Oxfordshire - is that a problem? Yes, because this is not the way to treat our old folk - it is stressful enough moving at any time of life, but when you are older, this kind of enforced disruption is unacceptable. The "problem" also involves losing our small independent traders and replacing them with chain shops, supermarkets and restaurants. There will two years of shops located in shipping containers with the temporary loss of car parking spaces - great for business -not! The locals are quite happy with the facilities that already exist and have no desire for a cinema -we already have enough of these within easy reach (the cinema will only become a white elephant - remember the Imax at Bournemouth - demolished due to lack of use and replaced with community space!). This scheme must be scaled down and the Vale of the White Horse District Council and Doric must listen and respect the views of the people who actually live in Botley. Twirly
  • Score: 20

11:43am Tue 4 Feb 14

Scrofulous Serf says...

This represents a massive over-development of what has grown up as an essentially local facility. The whole nature of the neighbourhood will change with the provision of 550 student rooms. It's the equivalent of dropping another Worcester College into Oxford, without any local infrastructure. There is a huge amount of student accommodation for Brookes students at Harcourt Hill and most of the University students will already be housed in college accommodation. Is this going to become a language school ghetto?
This represents a massive over-development of what has grown up as an essentially local facility. The whole nature of the neighbourhood will change with the provision of 550 student rooms. It's the equivalent of dropping another Worcester College into Oxford, without any local infrastructure. There is a huge amount of student accommodation for Brookes students at Harcourt Hill and most of the University students will already be housed in college accommodation. Is this going to become a language school ghetto? Scrofulous Serf
  • Score: 16

12:14pm Tue 4 Feb 14

King Joke says...

Let them build it, with no increase in parking over the current provision. Traffic can't increase if it's got nowhere more to park than at present. If Doric think this is not viable they can simply withdraw the application.
Let them build it, with no increase in parking over the current provision. Traffic can't increase if it's got nowhere more to park than at present. If Doric think this is not viable they can simply withdraw the application. King Joke
  • Score: 4

12:16pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Patrick, Devon says...

As one who grew up in Botley, I can sympathise with the traffic arguments. This development, or something very similar, is likely to go ahead whatever residents want. What is needed is a joined up approach to traffic, with the develpoer making a substantial contribution.

Moving the park and ride site from Seacourt to where the A420 crosses the Eynsham Road, near Dean Court, would greatly help. Perhaps then it would be feasible to build a tramway from there to Oxford centre - the traffic volume justifies this. The proximity of Westgate and the rail station should be used to make a proper joined up development with less car dependancy..
As one who grew up in Botley, I can sympathise with the traffic arguments. This development, or something very similar, is likely to go ahead whatever residents want. What is needed is a joined up approach to traffic, with the develpoer making a substantial contribution. Moving the park and ride site from Seacourt to where the A420 crosses the Eynsham Road, near Dean Court, would greatly help. Perhaps then it would be feasible to build a tramway from there to Oxford centre - the traffic volume justifies this. The proximity of Westgate and the rail station should be used to make a proper joined up development with less car dependancy.. Patrick, Devon
  • Score: 7

12:49pm Tue 4 Feb 14

mytaxes says...

I wonder how many would be more sympathetic to the development if there was no student accommodation? Phrases such as "language school ghetto" seem to imply that residents do not want any change to the population of Botley which is a great pity.
I wonder how many would be more sympathetic to the development if there was no student accommodation? Phrases such as "language school ghetto" seem to imply that residents do not want any change to the population of Botley which is a great pity. mytaxes
  • Score: 1

1:38pm Tue 4 Feb 14

King Joke says...

Patrick, Devon wrote:
As one who grew up in Botley, I can sympathise with the traffic arguments. This development, or something very similar, is likely to go ahead whatever residents want. What is needed is a joined up approach to traffic, with the develpoer making a substantial contribution. Moving the park and ride site from Seacourt to where the A420 crosses the Eynsham Road, near Dean Court, would greatly help. Perhaps then it would be feasible to build a tramway from there to Oxford centre - the traffic volume justifies this. The proximity of Westgate and the rail station should be used to make a proper joined up development with less car dependancy..
What traffic issue would moving the Park + Ride address? It isn't a bad idea, but what would be the gain?
[quote][p][bold]Patrick, Devon[/bold] wrote: As one who grew up in Botley, I can sympathise with the traffic arguments. This development, or something very similar, is likely to go ahead whatever residents want. What is needed is a joined up approach to traffic, with the develpoer making a substantial contribution. Moving the park and ride site from Seacourt to where the A420 crosses the Eynsham Road, near Dean Court, would greatly help. Perhaps then it would be feasible to build a tramway from there to Oxford centre - the traffic volume justifies this. The proximity of Westgate and the rail station should be used to make a proper joined up development with less car dependancy..[/p][/quote]What traffic issue would moving the Park + Ride address? It isn't a bad idea, but what would be the gain? King Joke
  • Score: -1

1:57pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Patrick, Devon says...

King Joke wrote:
Patrick, Devon wrote:
As one who grew up in Botley, I can sympathise with the traffic arguments. This development, or something very similar, is likely to go ahead whatever residents want. What is needed is a joined up approach to traffic, with the develpoer making a substantial contribution. Moving the park and ride site from Seacourt to where the A420 crosses the Eynsham Road, near Dean Court, would greatly help. Perhaps then it would be feasible to build a tramway from there to Oxford centre - the traffic volume justifies this. The proximity of Westgate and the rail station should be used to make a proper joined up development with less car dependancy..
What traffic issue would moving the Park + Ride address? It isn't a bad idea, but what would be the gain?
Moving the Seacourt Park and Ride outwards would intercept traffic before it came through Botley or negotiated the junctions with the A34 and Botley Road. That, and a fast efficient public transport route inwards, would remove alot of traffic from West Way.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Patrick, Devon[/bold] wrote: As one who grew up in Botley, I can sympathise with the traffic arguments. This development, or something very similar, is likely to go ahead whatever residents want. What is needed is a joined up approach to traffic, with the develpoer making a substantial contribution. Moving the park and ride site from Seacourt to where the A420 crosses the Eynsham Road, near Dean Court, would greatly help. Perhaps then it would be feasible to build a tramway from there to Oxford centre - the traffic volume justifies this. The proximity of Westgate and the rail station should be used to make a proper joined up development with less car dependancy..[/p][/quote]What traffic issue would moving the Park + Ride address? It isn't a bad idea, but what would be the gain?[/p][/quote]Moving the Seacourt Park and Ride outwards would intercept traffic before it came through Botley or negotiated the junctions with the A34 and Botley Road. That, and a fast efficient public transport route inwards, would remove alot of traffic from West Way. Patrick, Devon
  • Score: 7

2:49pm Tue 4 Feb 14

King Joke says...

How would the traffic get from the A34 to Dean Court Patrick? It would still need to negotiate the junction by Mc Donalds; it would turn right instead of left. Most traffic comes from the A34, not from Cumnor Hill or the Eynsham Rd.

If we want a fast, efficient PT route into town from Botley, we need to re-think the purpose of the Binsey Lane bus gate. THis needs to hold traffic back at this point, only letting it through at a capacity the Ferry Hinksey Lights can handle. This would make no difference to car journey times, while cutting several minutes off bus/tram/whatever journey times. You could do this at the cost of a few hundred quid, if that.
How would the traffic get from the A34 to Dean Court Patrick? It would still need to negotiate the junction by Mc Donalds; it would turn right instead of left. Most traffic comes from the A34, not from Cumnor Hill or the Eynsham Rd. If we want a fast, efficient PT route into town from Botley, we need to re-think the purpose of the Binsey Lane bus gate. THis needs to hold traffic back at this point, only letting it through at a capacity the Ferry Hinksey Lights can handle. This would make no difference to car journey times, while cutting several minutes off bus/tram/whatever journey times. You could do this at the cost of a few hundred quid, if that. King Joke
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Patrick, Devon says...

King Joke wrote:
How would the traffic get from the A34 to Dean Court Patrick? It would still need to negotiate the junction by Mc Donalds; it would turn right instead of left. Most traffic comes from the A34, not from Cumnor Hill or the Eynsham Rd.

If we want a fast, efficient PT route into town from Botley, we need to re-think the purpose of the Binsey Lane bus gate. THis needs to hold traffic back at this point, only letting it through at a capacity the Ferry Hinksey Lights can handle. This would make no difference to car journey times, while cutting several minutes off bus/tram/whatever journey times. You could do this at the cost of a few hundred quid, if that.
If one is on the A34 and want Park n Ride, then surely the Pear Tree and Redbridge ones are better options? In my experience Seacourt was fed mainly by the A420 and Eynsham road, plus some Botley folk.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: How would the traffic get from the A34 to Dean Court Patrick? It would still need to negotiate the junction by Mc Donalds; it would turn right instead of left. Most traffic comes from the A34, not from Cumnor Hill or the Eynsham Rd. If we want a fast, efficient PT route into town from Botley, we need to re-think the purpose of the Binsey Lane bus gate. THis needs to hold traffic back at this point, only letting it through at a capacity the Ferry Hinksey Lights can handle. This would make no difference to car journey times, while cutting several minutes off bus/tram/whatever journey times. You could do this at the cost of a few hundred quid, if that.[/p][/quote]If one is on the A34 and want Park n Ride, then surely the Pear Tree and Redbridge ones are better options? In my experience Seacourt was fed mainly by the A420 and Eynsham road, plus some Botley folk. Patrick, Devon
  • Score: -2

6:22pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Andy of jericho says...

BigAlBiker wrote:
What's the problem? the regeneration of what is an old sad dreary area is to be welcomed, new business, new jobs the lot, and the more facilities for the locals must be applauded.
But the residents like it sad old and dreary! Possibly because so many of the are themselves
[quote][p][bold]BigAlBiker[/bold] wrote: What's the problem? the regeneration of what is an old sad dreary area is to be welcomed, new business, new jobs the lot, and the more facilities for the locals must be applauded.[/p][/quote]But the residents like it sad old and dreary! Possibly because so many of the are themselves Andy of jericho
  • Score: -10

6:40pm Tue 4 Feb 14

BigAlBiker says...

Andy of jericho wrote:
BigAlBiker wrote:
What's the problem? the regeneration of what is an old sad dreary area is to be welcomed, new business, new jobs the lot, and the more facilities for the locals must be applauded.
But the residents like it sad old and dreary! Possibly because so many of the are themselves
You're not wrong there, although my daughter lives in Botley and she and her husband welcome the redevelopment, in fact if there should be a Pro development organisation they would join.

Knock the old rubbish down and modernise is the only way forward.
[quote][p][bold]Andy of jericho[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BigAlBiker[/bold] wrote: What's the problem? the regeneration of what is an old sad dreary area is to be welcomed, new business, new jobs the lot, and the more facilities for the locals must be applauded.[/p][/quote]But the residents like it sad old and dreary! Possibly because so many of the are themselves[/p][/quote]You're not wrong there, although my daughter lives in Botley and she and her husband welcome the redevelopment, in fact if there should be a Pro development organisation they would join. Knock the old rubbish down and modernise is the only way forward. BigAlBiker
  • Score: -2

7:06pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Benjami says...

I really struggle to understand the over the top rhetoric coming from the other side.

Both West Way and Elms Parade are aesthetically horrible, and the services they provide are dire. Yes, they may have independent shops (ignoring Tescos, Iceland, and Co-Op) but those shops fail to provide any real useful service.

The Taylors in Elms Parade is by far the worst Taylors in Oxford, it lacks the energy and drive of the others. Yes I am talking about a sandwich shop, and yes the one in Botley is so bad it makes the others look somehow amazing. If you don't believe me go there for lunch!

West Oxford is in desperate need of a major shopping centre, and with the access to the A34 this is the perfect location!
I really struggle to understand the over the top rhetoric coming from the other side. Both West Way and Elms Parade are aesthetically horrible, and the services they provide are dire. Yes, they may have independent shops (ignoring Tescos, Iceland, and Co-Op) but those shops fail to provide any real useful service. The Taylors in Elms Parade is by far the worst Taylors in Oxford, it lacks the energy and drive of the others. Yes I am talking about a sandwich shop, and yes the one in Botley is so bad it makes the others look somehow amazing. If you don't believe me go there for lunch! West Oxford is in desperate need of a major shopping centre, and with the access to the A34 this is the perfect location! Benjami
  • Score: 3

7:35pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Patrick, Devon says...

I am not surprised that many current residents welcome the redevelopment. The existing centre and elms parade are boring, inadequate, badly designed and well due for redevelopment. Providing student housing is also a good idea. I hope those who are pro take part in the consultation and not let the antis have it all their way.
I am not surprised that many current residents welcome the redevelopment. The existing centre and elms parade are boring, inadequate, badly designed and well due for redevelopment. Providing student housing is also a good idea. I hope those who are pro take part in the consultation and not let the antis have it all their way. Patrick, Devon
  • Score: 2

9:35pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sophia says...

They should bulldoze the whole of Botley cover it with 50 feet of soil and grow a tropical rainforest on it under an enormous glass dome a mile across and fill it with alligators and parrots and people it with fierce cannibalistic pygmies toting drug tipped blowpipes worshipping a strange demon god called Doric

Be a change anyhow
They should bulldoze the whole of Botley cover it with 50 feet of soil and grow a tropical rainforest on it under an enormous glass dome a mile across and fill it with alligators and parrots and people it with fierce cannibalistic pygmies toting drug tipped blowpipes worshipping a strange demon god called Doric Be a change anyhow Sophia
  • Score: 4

8:28am Wed 5 Feb 14

King Joke says...

That's cheered me up Sophia! :-)
That's cheered me up Sophia! :-) King Joke
  • Score: -1

10:30pm Wed 5 Feb 14

NotHarry says...

As a young(ish) Botley resident, I am Pro-development, but Anti-Doric's plans.

The 1960s buildings are definitely dreary and I can't wait to see those replaced with something better.

I really don't get people's nasty comments against Elms Parade, though. The building has a sloped roof, rounded windows, some balconies, and three nice bright sections of rendering -- SO much better than the huge dark grey prison-like block that Doric wants to put in its place. Yes the shops are small, but that also makes them super convenient to pop into, and they are always busy. There is no reason why we can't keep these and redevelop the other part that really does need changing. Plus it would mean that we'd still have some shops to go to when the newer ones are being built.

I'm not against student accommodation full stop, but 500+ rooms is WAY too many for such a small space -- that's 10% of the current local population, crammed on top of a store the size of the Heyford Hill Sainsburys! I wouldn't have wanted to live like that when I was a student (not long ago), and I'd really hate to be looking at an 8-story equally prison-like block out my front or back window, which lots of residents will be if this goes ahead.

The local campaigners have been pretty clear that they're not anti-development either, just anti-OVER-developmen
t. Shouldn't other Pro-development people be talking to them so that the whole community gets what it actually wants, instead of getting stuck with Doric's hideous plans?
As a young(ish) Botley resident, I am Pro-development, but Anti-Doric's plans. The 1960s buildings are definitely dreary and I can't wait to see those replaced with something better. I really don't get people's nasty comments against Elms Parade, though. The building has a sloped roof, rounded windows, some balconies, and three nice bright sections of rendering -- SO much better than the huge dark grey prison-like block that Doric wants to put in its place. Yes the shops are small, but that also makes them super convenient to pop into, and they are always busy. There is no reason why we can't keep these and redevelop the other part that really does need changing. Plus it would mean that we'd still have some shops to go to when the newer ones are being built. I'm not against student accommodation full stop, but 500+ rooms is WAY too many for such a small space -- that's 10% of the current local population, crammed on top of a store the size of the Heyford Hill Sainsburys! I wouldn't have wanted to live like that when I was a student (not long ago), and I'd really hate to be looking at an 8-story equally prison-like block out my front or back window, which lots of residents will be if this goes ahead. The local campaigners have been pretty clear that they're not anti-development either, just anti-OVER-developmen t. Shouldn't other Pro-development people be talking to them so that the whole community gets what it actually wants, instead of getting stuck with Doric's hideous plans? NotHarry
  • Score: 7

1:23am Thu 6 Feb 14

mrs wogan's lemon drizzle cake says...

As a young professional Botley resident I am all for doric's plans. Both the 1960's shops and elms parade need pulling down ASAP. The flats at the top and the balconies on the elms parade are an eyesore, with little architectural merit. I know many other people under thethe state pensionable age feel the same.

Westway concern and the local parish "newsletter" have both been hijacked by a partisan minority, spreading needless fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

These NIMBYS are in a vocal minority who claim to speak for all of the residents of Botley - they don't.
As a young professional Botley resident I am all for doric's plans. Both the 1960's shops and elms parade need pulling down ASAP. The flats at the top and the balconies on the elms parade are an eyesore, with little architectural merit. I know many other people under thethe state pensionable age feel the same. Westway concern and the local parish "newsletter" have both been hijacked by a partisan minority, spreading needless fear, uncertainty, and doubt. These NIMBYS are in a vocal minority who claim to speak for all of the residents of Botley - they don't. mrs wogan's lemon drizzle cake
  • Score: 5

10:22am Thu 6 Feb 14

NotHarry says...

I am decades under the state pensionable age, mrs wogan, so please don't claim to speak to for me or my neighbours of the same age who don't want Doric's development. We can differ in our opinion about Elms Parade, but this should be part of the development discussion -- not the false options of 'rip it all down' or 'do nothing' that Doric claims. There is a middle ground.

I was also one of about 600 people who turned up on a Saturday to stand around the shops in November. That's hundreds more people than those directly involved with Westway concern or the local newsletter, so I don't think you can claim that they are a vocal minority. They seem pretty in touch with the many, many people (of all ages) who are worried that Doric isn't listening and will push the wrong development on us whether we like it or not.
I am decades under the state pensionable age, mrs wogan, so please don't claim to speak to for me or my neighbours of the same age who don't want Doric's development. We can differ in our opinion about Elms Parade, but this should be part of the development discussion -- not the false options of 'rip it all down' or 'do nothing' that Doric claims. There is a middle ground. I was also one of about 600 people who turned up on a Saturday to stand around the shops in November. That's hundreds more people than those directly involved with Westway concern or the local newsletter, so I don't think you can claim that they are a vocal minority. They seem pretty in touch with the many, many people (of all ages) who are worried that Doric isn't listening and will push the wrong development on us whether we like it or not. NotHarry
  • Score: 3

11:36am Sat 8 Feb 14

H.J.Harris says...

The idea of an underground car park in Botley interests me, at certain times of the year it could be useful for the occasional submarine.
The idea of an underground car park in Botley interests me, at certain times of the year it could be useful for the occasional submarine. H.J.Harris
  • Score: 0

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